John C. Wright ([info]johncwright) wrote,

The Vindication of Humanae Vitae by Mary Eberstadt

A while back, I mentioned in this space my conclusion that the sexual revolution was an unmitigated disaster for the West, particularly for the poor among us. Now, this was something of a sore point with me, since I had been born and raised as a card-carrying member of the sexual revolution: all the scorn and smugness you can read in the pages of Robert Heinlein and Ayn Rand against the institution of marriage, and the impertinent dogma that any number of people in any combination of sexes can and should fornicate with each other, or with the family dog, in any way shape or form as they should see fit, provided only that all consent and that no one is harmed, used to dribble from my lips. I was in perfect lockstep with the other non-conformists, who all talked and spoke and thought the same way. Marriage and fatherhood eroded those juvenile notions from my head, and once the logic of Stoicism is followed to its logical conclusion, I found myself in a position almost indistinguishable from Christianity, the exact contrary of my former view.

Nonetheless, I am naive enough that I thought a condemnation of the sexual revolution was not a controversial position. I thought the evils that spring from the national and cultural habits of admiring vice and eschewing virtue were obvious, even to the oblivious. But no: strong contrary arguments are still being made.

Entering the lists is Mary Eberstadt's article in FIRST THINGS. She has taken the time to list a number of empiric sources to support the conclusion that the sexual revolution was a disaster. While I do not place so very much stock in the findings of "sociologists", I offer this here for the sake of those that do. Here are several paragraphs from this article:


Let’s begin by meditating upon what might be called the first of the secular ironies now evident: Humanae Vitae’s specific predictions about what the world would look like if artificial contraception became widespread. The encyclical warned of four resulting trends: a general lowering of moral standards throughout society; a rise in infidelity; a lessening of respect for women by men; and the coercive use of reproductive technologies by governments.


In the years since Humanae Vitae’s appearance, numerous distinguished Catholic thinkers have argued, using a variety of evidence, that each of these predictions has been borne out by the social facts. One thinks, for example, of Monsignor George A. Kelly in his 1978 “Bitter Pill the Catholic Community Swallowed” and of the many contributions of Janet E. Smith, including Humanae Vitae: A Generation Later and the edited volume Why Humanae Vitae Was Right: A Reader.


And therein lies an irony within an irony. Although it is largely Catholic thinkers who have connected the latest empirical evidence to the defense of Humanae Vitae’s predictions, during those same forty years most of the experts actually producing the empirical evidence have been social scientists operating in the secular realm. As sociologist W. Bradford Wilcox emphasized in a 2005 essay: “The leading scholars who have tackled these topics are not Christians, and most of them are not political or social conservatives. They are, rather, honest social scientists willing to follow the data wherever it may lead.”


Consider, as Wilcox does, the Nobel Prize-winning economist George Akerlof. In a well-known 1996 article in the Quarterly Journal of Economics, Akerlof explained in the language of modern economics why the sexual revolution—contrary to common prediction, especially prediction by those in and out of the Church who wanted the teaching on birth control changed—had led to an increase in both illegitimacy and abortion. In another work published in the Economic Journal ten years ago, he traced the empirical connections between the decrease in marriage and married fatherhood for men—both clear consequences of the contraceptive revolution—and the simultaneous increase in behaviors to which single men appear more prone: substance abuse, incarceration, and arrests, to name just three.


Along the way, Akerlof found a strong connection between the diminishment of marriage on the one hand and the rise in poverty and social pathology on the other. He explained his findings in nontechnical terms in Slate magazine: “Although doubt will always remain about what causes a change in social custom, the technology-shock theory does fit the facts. The new reproductive technology was adopted quickly, and on a massive scale. Marital and fertility patterns changed with similar drama, at about the same time.”


To these examples of secular social science confirming what Catholic thinkers had predicted, one might add many more demonstrating the negative effects on children and society. The groundbreaking work that Daniel Patrick Moynihan did in 1965, on the black family, is an example—along with the critical research of psychologist Judith Wallerstein over several decades on the impact of divorce on children; Barbara Dafoe Whitehead’s well-known work on the outcomes of single parenthood for children; Sara McLanahan and Gary Sandefur’s seminal book, Growing Up with a Single Parent; and David Blankenhorn’s Fatherless America, another lengthy summarization of the bad empirical news about family breakup.


Numerous other books followed this path of analyzing the benefits of marriage, including James Q. Wilson’s The Marriage Problem, Linda Waite and Maggie Gallagher’s The Case for Marriage, Kay Hymowitz’s Marriage and Caste in America, and Elizabeth Marquardt’s recent Between Two Worlds: The Inner Lives of Children of Divorce. To this list could be added many more examples of how the data have grown and grown to support the proposition that the sexual revolution has been resulting in disaster for large swaths of the country—a proposition further honed by whole decades of examination of the relation between public welfare and family dysfunction (particularly in the pages of the decidedly not-Catholic Public Interest magazine). Still other seminal works have observed that private actions, notably post-revolution sexual habits, were having massive public consequences; Charles Murray’s Losing Ground and Francis Fukuyama’s The Great Disruption come especially to mind.


All this is to say that, beginning just before the appearance of Humanae Vitae, an academic and intellectual rethinking began that can no longer be ignored—one whose accumulation of empirical evidence points to the deleterious effects of the sexual revolution on many adults and children. And even in the occasional effort to draw a happy face on current trends, there is no glossing over what are still historically high rates of family breakup and unwed motherhood. For example, in “Crime, Drugs, Welfare—and Other Good News,” a recent and somewhat contrarian article in Commentary, Peter Wehner and Yuval Levin applauded the fact that various measures of social disaster and dysfunction seem to be improving from previous lows, including, among others, violent crime and property crime, and teen alcohol and tobacco use. Even they had to note that “some of the most vital social indicators of all—those regarding the condition and strength of the American family—have so far refused to turn upward.”


In sum, although a few apologists such as Stephanie Coontz still insist otherwise, just about everyone else in possession of the evidence acknowledges that the sexual revolution has weakened family ties, and that family ties (the presence of a biologically related mother and father in the home) have turned out to be important indicators of child well-being—and more, that the broken home is not just a problem for individuals but also for society. Some scholars, moreover, further link these problems to the contraceptive revolution itself.


Consider the work of maverick sociobiologist Lionel Tiger. Hardly a cat’s-paw of the pope—he describes religion as “a toxic issue”—Tiger has repeatedly emphasized the centrality of the sexual revolution to today’s unique problems. The Decline of Males, his 1999 book, was particularly controversial among feminists for its argument that female contraceptives had altered the balance between the sexes in disturbing new ways (especially by taking from men any say in whether they could have children).


Equally eyebrow-raising is his linking of contraception to the breakdown of families, female impoverishment, trouble in the relationship between the sexes, and single motherhood. Tiger has further argued—as Humanae Vitae did not explicitly, though other works of Catholic theology have—for a causal link between contraception and abortion, stating outright that “with effective contraception controlled by women, there are still more abortions than ever. . . . Contraception causes abortion.”


Who could deny that the predictions of Humanae Vitae and, by extension, of Catholic moral theology have been ratified with data and arguments that did not even exist in 1968? But now comes the question that just keeps on giving. Has this dramatic reappraisal of the empirically known universe led to any secular reappraisals, however grudging, that Paul VI may have gotten something right after all? The answer is manifestly that it has not. And this is only the beginning of the dissonance that surrounds us in 2008.


http://www.firstthings.com/article.php3?id_article=6262

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[info]jordan179

August 12 2008, 23:21:13 UTC 3 years ago

Mary Eberstadt said:

... during those same forty years most of the experts actually producing the empirical evidence have been social scientists operating in the secular realm.

Oh no, you want a real irony? Many of them have been sociobiologists, and at least one of them (Richard Dawkins) a prominent atheist. And some of them didn't realize what the impliations of their discoveries in this regard were likely to be.

(the Dawkins connection is meme theory, which discusses how ideas compete for mindspace habitat, which implies natural selection of the fittest idea for a given environment, which further implies that the success or failuure of an idea is strongly impacted by the capabilities or lack thereof of the social environment in which it operates).

[info]noahdoyle

August 12 2008, 23:33:35 UTC 3 years ago

“The leading scholars who have tackled these topics are not Christians, and most of them are not political or social conservatives. They are, rather, honest social scientists willing to follow the data wherever it may lead.”


Nice.

[info]botticelli_s

August 12 2008, 23:47:28 UTC 3 years ago

Yes

A superb article. I predict that Paul VI will be treated much more kindly by future historians than he has been by his contemporaries. (Just how far in the future is anybody's guess but I doubt it will be anytime soon.)

So many destructive trains of thought came into the station, so to speak, during the twentieth century, that we will be dealing with the results for many generations. This is one of most insidious and far-reaching in its effects.
I don't know who originally pointed out that the 1930 Lambeth Conference was the beginning of this, like a hairline crack in a dam, but I've seen that case convincingly argued many times now.

Particularly troubling is the way in which the virtues that pertain especially to family life -- sexual moderation, self-control, patience, self-sacrifical love in a family context -- are so frequently scoffed at and mocked by our professional manufacturers of media. Think, for example, of how often fathers are portrayed in television comedies as fools who are easily tricked and taken advantage of by their much smarter wives and children. Or the whole idea of sexual restraint. I recently had an acquaintance tell me, with a straight face, that "abstinence doesn't work."

The question is what to do, beyond the individual scope. What public policies will repair this and how could they be enacted, given an increasingly benighted populace? I don't know the answers.

[info]adt6247

August 14 2008, 17:11:38 UTC 3 years ago

Re: Yes

I doubt he will be treated well in history. He did write Humanae Vitae, which is a thoroughly orthodox work, but he lacked the backbone to deal with the priests and bishops who rose in open dissent against the timeless and infallible teaching of the church. He backed down, never wrote another encyclical, and moved on.

He did the same with the new mass (he insisted that the changes were too great, but settled on forcing Bugnini to keep the Roman Canon and the Orate Fratres, and called it a day), communion in the hand (which he condemned, but allowed), and a host of other things. He was a brilliant man who embraced the mind of the church in intellect, but not in action.

[info]bibliophile112

August 13 2008, 03:03:48 UTC 3 years ago

Intriging.

[info]omegamythos

August 13 2008, 13:58:54 UTC 3 years ago

The Next Steps of the Revolution

Often it is argued that homosexuals are attacking the "sanctity of marriage" when the initial and decisive blow against the sanctity of marriage occurred during the Sexual Revolution and the normalization of contraceptives by heterosexuals, especially Christians.

Few Christians realize how the normalization of contraception is the philosophical lead into gay marriage - because what is the difference between a contracepting heterosexual couple and a homosexual couple? Neither is engaging in sex that is aimed towards procreation.

Further, if the aim of sexuality is not for the creation of children - which requires both physical and mental maturity - why is it wrong to have sex with persons who are not mentally or even physical mature?

Anyone who walks into the department store to buy clothes for their little girl knows that pedophilia is the next step of the sexual revolution, being spearheaded by our fashion designers and underage Disney tweenage celebrities who take racy pictures of themselves and peddled by so-called conservatives such as FoxNews.

~ Paolo

[info]vitruvian23

August 13 2008, 16:54:10 UTC 3 years ago

Re: The Next Steps of the Revolution

"Further, if the aim of sexuality is not for the creation of children - which requires both physical and mental maturity - why is it wrong to have sex with persons who are not mentally or even physical mature?"

Surely, the wrongness of this is not predicated on the ability or inability of couples to procreate, but rather on the immature persons not having the capacity to properly consent to sexual relations (even if they think they do), making it an act of coercion tantamount to rape. This is precisely why we have such a crime in secular law as statutory rape, even if one can argue exactly which cases it should cover at the borderlines (e.g., age of consent to marriage differing between states and nationalities).

In point of fact, I believe that most reasonable people are *more* appalled at cases of pederasty and parent-on-child incest when such relations do in fact produce children.

"because what is the difference between a contracepting heterosexual couple and a homosexual couple? Neither is engaging in sex that is aimed towards procreation."

Neither is a heterosexual couple where either partner is naturally barren and this fact is known, where either partner has suffered an impairing injury to the reproductive organs, where the woman has required a hysterectomy for medical reasons, or indeed where the woman has passed menopause (barring a repeat of Genesis 18-21). Perhaps sex should also be unlawful, even between married couples, in these circumstances?

[info]asterling

August 13 2008, 15:55:06 UTC 3 years ago

Very interesting, John. I'm the product of at least four generations (and probably more) of strong female mothers and grandmothers, and "weaker" fathers - there are two exceptions to this. My own father was faithful and supportive, as my mother was ill with pancreatic cancer, and made the choice to stop taking cancer treatments upon learning she was pregnant (with me). My maternal grandfather was the best man I ever knew, and he taught me most of what I know about the right way to be and do things. He mostly raised me after my mother's death, was not my biological grandfather. He married my grandmother and raised my mother after my grandmother had to divorce her first husband, my mother's father, for being the worst guy ever (gambler, alcoholic, tried to force my grandmother to miscarry using poisonous compounds).

I'm told I'm very like a man in the working world, and I certainly have always worked - like a man, and supported my family - like a man.

But I don't like this. I especially dislike the infantile behavior of today's incapable, amoral, weak men, who act like teenaged boys at best, and who cannot take the role of husband, father and provider. Women don't raise their children alone by choice for the most part.

I want my daughter to marry a good man and have a happy family. I don't want her to have the kind of life I've had. Being primarily responsible for everyone and everything isn't all it's cracked up to be.

[info]asterling

August 13 2008, 16:17:04 UTC 3 years ago

John, this is a really awful topic, but I wanted to address the issue of contraception causing abortions. In the absence of effective, inexpensive contraception, people's attention is automatically drawn to the primary natural consequence of sex - a baby. I think, however, that contraception does not cause abortions as was suggested. I think that the availability of abortions is a very complex situation and not necessarily "connected" to people using contraception that fails. There are some who use the abortion as a method of direct contraception.

One of the panels at WorldCon was about genetic engineering, at which I was the expert. If you read my story "Perfect Stranger," it will illustrate what I believe about these issues. One of the panelists praised genetic treatments by giving as an example the ability to detect Down Syndrome prior to birth - which is of course a chromosomal, not a genetic test. Amnio to discover Down Syndrome is, of course, the cause of the majority of late-term abortions. As I refused amnio and did have a baby with Down Syndrome, I do not believe that this test should be used to determine whether or not a baby should be aborted. I do not believe that parents have that "right." I think that a completely medical, as opposed to moral, approach to abortion indicates to women and men that there is not a human life at stake. After life is felt, I find it impossible to believe that a woman would not instinctively know that there is a baby in there who is separate from her.
This is a huge issue. And we're talking about humanity and dignity, not "the right to behave like a crocodile." (eating one's own young when one gets the chance).

[info]necoras

August 13 2008, 18:21:47 UTC 3 years ago

I agree with you that the parent doesn't have the right to decide whether or not it would be convenient to raise a disabled child and subsequently kill that child. I'm curious though, if when you were pregnant the technology had existed to fix the chromosomal error so that you child would not have had Down Syndrome, would you have undertaken that procedure? What if there was only a 50/50 chance your child would survive?

Personally I'd see such a procedure as a medical procedure to improve the quality of life of the child, much the same as say a surgery to correct a curvature of the spine. The death of the child would be an unfortunate accident, not an intentional abortion. However, as I'm not yet a parent and have virtually no experience on the matter, I'd like to know what someone closer to that situation thinks.

[info]asterling

3 years ago

[info]asterling

3 years ago

[info]adt6247

August 14 2008, 17:23:02 UTC 3 years ago

It's not that contraception directly causes abortion -- it's widespread use divorces the twofold purposes of sex in the eyes of the people, and makes optional the primary end of sex. This mentality -- that sex is not primarily about procreation, allows people to take a view of sex as something recreational, and that pregnancy is an unwanted consequence.

Put this way: if contraception were still thought of as a grave evil by society, would abortion even be possible in the eyes of the majority? Is it coincidence that Connecticut v. Griswold is cited in Roe v. Wade, and that Roe v. Wade relies on the vague notion of a "rite of privacy" which was "discovered" in Griswold?

If marriage, chivalry, or romance has any worth or purpose at all, Contraception is a grave and objective evil that stands contrary to full, total, and complete love -- the gift of absolute and unbreakable devotion and self-sacrifice between spouses.

[info]johncwright

August 14 2008, 19:42:10 UTC 3 years ago

On Child Murder

My own experience with prenatal diagnosis was much gentler than this, but still shocking at outrageous to me. My son Orville was diagnosed as having Spina Bifida, and the doctor (very gently, very indirectly) suggested that we abort him.

The diagnosis was wrong, and now Orville is 9 years old, and recently made his first video-cam movie, JONAH AND THE CLOWN FISH. He is working on his next cinematic triumph, SNORING BEAUTY, even now. He likes Pokemon and L. Frank Baum and his own version of baseball-soccer he calls 'Boccer'. He and I are going to watch the next season of AVATAR: The Last Airbender later tonight.

Now here is the part of the story that shocked and outraged me. I was an atheist at the time, and one who, because of my devotion to dispassionate logic, could not make a decision between the pro-abortion and anti-abortion camps. Each side seemed to have both a logical argument and no axioms in in common from which to deduce which conclusion was valid or invalid. Therefore nothing in my Eudaimonian Stoic Libertarian logic told me whether the act was moral or immoral. My wife was a confirmed Christian, a member of that obscure and backward sect who worship a dead rabbi who was nailed to a tree or something.

She knew the right answer for the doctor. I did not.

I was tempted to kill my kid. I actually thought about it like it was the kind of thing an honest man does. Because, of course, selfish fat modern American me, I did not want the heartache and expense of raising a handicapped child.

No man can damn himself to hell and remain sane. I cannot, in good conscience, pray to the Lord God that He punish me for this on Judgment Day. But, as a good Catholic (or, rather, as a bad Catholic) I can hope I burn in purgatory for a while for daring to even think, even for a second, of blotting out the miracle of life.

You see, it would have all been snuffed out. I don't give a tinker's damn or a rat's ass if Orville was not human in some legal or metaphysical sense at that moment when I was making that decision.

No matter what he was at that moment, all the moments that have come after, everything from playing ball or taking him to camp to Cub Scouts to watching cartoons together to seeing him brush his teeth in his wee little Superboy pajamas, and playing paper-scissors-rock to see if we would read QUEEN ZIXI OF IX as the bedtime tale that night, or SKY ISLAND. It all would have been gone, blotted out, obliterated, never been.

My son, the son of two science fiction writers, has already made up his own world and I helped him draw a map. He knows the continents and islands, and knows what magic and which warbeasts live there. The world is called Edaria.

The world of Edaria would have been aborted if I had aborted my son, human or not.

[info]asterling

3 years ago

[info]marielapin

August 13 2008, 17:02:07 UTC 3 years ago

Thank you for posting this article. I don't know if I would have found it otherwise. This subject has been discussed very heatedly and very often of late, in my circle of friends.

[info]xander25

August 13 2008, 20:21:48 UTC 3 years ago Edited:  August 13 2008, 20:27:24 UTC

"Nonetheless, I am naive enough that I thought a condemnation of the sexual revolution was not a controversial position. I thought the evils that spring from the national and cultural habits of admiring vice and eschewing virtue were obvious, even to the oblivious."

Except that virtue and vice no longer mean the same thing as they once did (particularly to my generation). Either they are oppresive categories invented by societies, productions of absolutist mindsets, outmoded, silly theories once believed in by the ancients, or a combination of the three. How can any moral reasoning take place on these grounds? You would not imagine how difficult I found it, in one debate, of redefining morals as "what one ought do" from "social conventions". How can any moral reasoning take place on such grounds?

There are fewer more damaging positions to all of Christendom, than the idea that morals are subjective. If morality is subjective, then Christians who say otherwise are fools (or so the modern theory goes).

[info]gryphmon

August 13 2008, 22:52:27 UTC 3 years ago

Wedding Bells

As a gay man, I've always found the outrage of straight people at the idea of gay and lesbians wanting to get married to be extremely hypocritical. If they want to truly address what destroyed the sanctity of marriage, they need look no farther than the nearest mirror.

Straight people deliberately threw their wedding rings into the garbage. But when we poor gay beggars come rifling through the dustbin and find such treasure buried in the banana peels and coffee grinds, they come running out screaming "Mine! Mine! Mine! just like Daffy Duck in an old cartoon.

Personally, I think great deal of the outrage is manufactured in order to remove the attention from the collective guilt they bear.
Thus the spectacle of some of the loudest complainants about gay marriage being caught up in infidelities or who are on their 3rd divorce etc.

But don't worry. We gays and lesbians will bring meaning back to the institution of marriage by setting a good example. After all, we don't HAVE to get married. We could live the life of sybaritic abandon that so many bigots love to stereotype us as doing.

But instead we are increasingly choosing to settle down and adopt children and to create families. And we do this because we value the treasures of hearth and home that straight people chose to abandon. And for most younger gays and lesbians growing up in the world now, marriage and family is becoming not just a possibility but an expectation.

So maybe straight people will start to look at their gay and lesbian friends getting married and think: "Hmmm...maybe there is something to this marriage thing after all?"

All snarkiness aside, I do also think that other factors such as industrialization and economics have just as much if not more impact on marriage and family as societal mores. Until relatively recently, it wasn't even possible for the most part for a woman to have a job outside of the home. Those jobs didn't exist. But you don't need sheer physical strength and size to perform the majority of jobs today. I also think it is very, very difficult in today's economy for a large family to survive on a single person's income. Its often a necessity for both parents to work outside the home.

[info]robert_mitchell

August 13 2008, 23:52:06 UTC 3 years ago

Re: Wedding Bells

Well, no. If "you" were trying to set a good example, "you" would not go to the courts to force the issue. "You" would just live in such a fashion that people would see that "you" were married. If enough "gay" people did that, the license would be pointless. As it is, the "gay" people we see and read about are the interesting ones, ie, the ones having a messy marriage or a loud angry divorce. Live by making a public scene, Die by becoming a public scene. No, Marriage is an absolute mess at the moment, and the best thing the "gay" community could do at this point is to lay low. When the pendulum swings back, people will be looking for a scapegoat. Not a good time to be the group making the loudest public scene.

[info]necoras

3 years ago

[info]necoras

3 years ago

[info]gryphmon

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[info]rlbell

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[info]johncwright

August 14 2008, 19:46:42 UTC 3 years ago

Re: Wedding Bells

"If they want to truly address what destroyed the sanctity of marriage, they need look no farther than the nearest mirror. "

You know that you and I, even if we disagree on everything else, agree on this.

I hope that if and when a DOMA (Defense of Marriage Amendment) is passed, the law will outlaw no-fault divorce, and institute corporal punishment for adulterers, and a jail term for fornication. Then, on the day the bill is signed, all the homosexuals can yell "surprise!" while the heteros look on in slack-jawed wonder, dimly realizing they have to live up to the standards they claim to defend.

Do you know the divorce rate among Christians in America is THE SAME as the divorce rate among the rest of the population? This, despite that fact that it is the one and only thing Christ ever commanded of his followers that admits of no ambiguity and no alternate interpreation.

[info]adt6247

3 years ago

[info]adt6247

3 years ago

[info]flaminphonebook

August 14 2008, 11:35:46 UTC 3 years ago

I agree that the sexual revolution carried a lot of baggage, and on the whole was a negative. But in my estimation it's a close finish. The benefits I see--the general increase in physical pleasure, the abandonment of awkward courtship roles, the increase in individual licence without loss of sexual opportunities--you do not see as benefits, but to the people involved, they are. That being said, a few points to consider:

-The dogma of the literature has only passing resemblence to the result.

Reread the part in Atlas Shrugged where Fransisco lectures Hank Rearden about sex. Note how Rand describes her great men being attracted to great women, and eschewing cheap sluts. Then read the James Taggart marraige subplot for comparison. In Heinlein, remember the line, "I'll bet that you will never again sleep with someone who is not your water brother."

This was the ideal of the sexual revolution. Not mere Woodstockian orgies, but a general rising of the cream to the top--good people sleeping with good people. It was designed to shatter the scenarios detailed in Wuthering Heights and The Great Gatsby and any Jane Austen novel you care to read; the scenario in which the smartest and most able people in the room fall in love, but hasty (or semi-arranged) marriages and caste prevent them from coming together.

Obviously, this is not the sum total of what actually happened. But it is part of it. Those scenarios do not arise today, and that, if nothing else, ought to be seen as a benefit of the sexual revolution, as universally as its failures are acknowledged.

-The revolution was not simply the product of contraception (or Griswold v. Connecticut).

I'm hard pressed to conclude that any piece of technological advancement can change the general ideas without some social factors. The entry of women into the workplace had a lot to do with it, in my estimation. Having skills to produce their own income made divorce or bachelorettehood a far more viable option for women, and when they did get married, it made the relationship a more horizontal one than a vertical one.

-The solution is not merely the opposite of the problem.

A few weeks back I read an article from a sociologist who claimed that poverty was a feedback problem. That is, the lack of money made it harder to earn and keep money. I agreed, as this seemed obvious. Then she offered a solution, which was to hand poor people money with no strings attached. This error might have been excusable before it was tried in the Great Society.

You will see the parallel, I hope. The problem is abandoned children and dysfunctional families, proximately caused by the same factors that solve the Bronte/Austen problem I described above. The solution is not to uninvent contraception, remove women from the workplace, and resume the man-as-lord-and-master concept (on a societal level. There may be individual situations where that is exactly the thing to do, and women who stay home and defer to their husbands ought not be condemned as they are today).

With due deference to Mrs. Clinton (that is, none at all), it does not take a village to raise a child. It takes a parent, or parents. That does not necessarily mean a biological parent, but it does mean someone who cares about and loves the child. Able and intelligent people can be produced without such, but it's a much rarer occurance.

From my view, the problems of the sexual revolution are not an example of our decadence, but of our lack of an organizing principle. This does not mean the neoliberal ideal of having children raised by experts in schools and day care centers, but by those who most love the individual children. Perhaps that means more widespread adoption, or more relative-raising, or something I haven't thought of. But putting the sexual genie back in the bottle doesn't strike me as a viable option.

And as a final thought, let's not forget that the sexual revolution is a mere 45 years old. Give it some time, it might not turn out so bad. Even Catholicism took a few centuries to really get rolling.

[info]robert_mitchell

August 14 2008, 15:18:20 UTC 3 years ago

I confess I don't see the benefits you do. general increase in physical pleasure? Haven't seen it. What I have seen is the loss of one on one pairing, and the rise of harems. Or do the men left out in the cold not exist as humans in your eyes? The abandonment of awkward courtship roles? The current system, where you have to politely find the "others" choice of sex partner, perversion, and current "hookups" has been painfully awkward every time I have watched it. The time I watched a young man try for months to court a young lady, who kept stringing him along, is burned into my soul. She was having an affair with a married man, and had to keep it secret. So she couldn't tell him no, or why she wouldn't go out with him. It was very awkward. Some courtship roles might have helped. I don't know. I've never seen any courtship roles. But the current swirling mass is a toxic mess. The increase in individual license without loss of sexual opportunities? How is that possible? If Bill Clinton "nails" five hundred women, despoiling them and wounding their souls, then four hundred and ninety nine men lost sexual opportunities, didn't they? The sexual revolution turned a pairing game into a game of winner take all. Some individuals increased their license, but most men found their sexual opportunities reduced or none existent. Women, of course can get as much as they want, so long as all they want is cheap, meaningless hookups. But having spent their golden years chasing after the "bad boys", they find their opportunities reduced when they want a genuine bonding. Thus the endless articles "Where have all the Good Men gone?".

The dogma of the literature has only passing resemblance to the result? Well, duh. The things dirtbags say to get women into bed have only a passing resemblance to what they say once they have that notch on the bedstead and want her to leave. Monica thought that Bill was going to leave his wife for her, remember? Men always talk about "great women" as part of the dance. Apparently the pick up line worked on you as well. But it's just a pick up line. No great message, just snake oil to sell to the stupid.

No one was saying that contraceptives were the only reason for the "revolution". Nothing in this world happens for one reason only, save, maybe, the Resurrection. But when some says "doing this will lead to that", and it does, it just might be a clue. It's not stew if there is only a pot of boiling water, but without the water, it's not stew, is it?

The solution may not be the opposite of the problem, but if you have made a mistake in math or navigation, the first step is to realize a mistake has been made, and the second step is go go back to the starting point. If the foundation isn't good, then any attempt to fix the problem is just going to make the error larger. And we can't check the foundation until we step back, can we?

Why doesn't putting the sexual genie back in the bottle strike you as a viable option? Bias maybe, or ignorance? This is not the first time the genie has been let out of the bottle. I'm sure you could find hundreds of examples of "alternative lifestyles" being tried on a societal level. Spartans, Greeks, Huguenots, Israelis ; many have tried to leave the "one man, one women, raising their children together" template. They failed and either put the genie back in the bottle or died. Why is this time different?

As to your last comment, the well is rather poisoned, isn't it? From the Left we hear that something they don't like is imperfect and must be replaced. Then when the replacement fails, the Left doesn't get rid of the replacement and return to the old way, they tell use the new solution needs more money and time. Funny how the Left has no patience with the old, functional solutions, and nothing but patience for their new, expensive broken solutions. We've been hearing for two hundred or more years that they need more money and time. Isn't time for a new line?

[info]marycatelli

August 15 2008, 00:13:19 UTC 3 years ago

The hookup culture on campuses is such that men and women routinely get drunk so they have an excuse for their own behavior.

And you think this is less awkward?

[info]rlbell

3 years ago

[info]johncwright

August 15 2008, 15:37:55 UTC 3 years ago

"Reread the part in Atlas Shrugged where Fransisco lectures Hank Rearden about sex. Note how Rand describes her great men being attracted to great women, and eschewing cheap sluts. Then read the James Taggart marraige subplot for comparison. In Heinlein, remember the line, "I'll bet that you will never again sleep with someone who is not your water brother." This was the ideal of the sexual revolution."

No. That was not the ideal, that was the excuse. I can prove it with this simple argument:

If Hank Reardon finds Dagny Taggart to be the object of his highest values, then why not divorce the satanic Mrs. Taggart and put a ring on Dagny's finger? Why not make a contract, O ye men of the mind, that reflects the high value: an exclusive contract?

If you feel attraction only toward your 'water brothers' and are willing to cleave to her excluding all others, why not take a vow, in public, to that effect?

In other words, the ideal that only the best of men would cleave to the best of women is the chivalric, romantic, to be blunt, the Christian ideal that the sexual revolutionaries were throwing under the bus.

If the sexual revolutionaries were claiming that their ideal was to restrict the romantic passions only to those partners truly worthy of true devotion, and if true devotion means eternal devotion (and I challenge anyone to argue that it does not) then logically the customs must follow, support, and encourage the noble passions claimed to be defended here. Exclusivity means cleaving to your true love and forsaking all others; being true means cleaving for life, til death ye do part.

But instead it was exactly those two steps in the ancient marriage dance, those two provisions in the marital covenant, that the sexual revolutionaries meant to erode and abolish: love for them would leap out from the boundaries of marriage, and last only so long as your inclination, your passion, you convenience or your erection lasted.

Its an excuse to cheat on your wife, or dump her for a younger model.

[info]m_francis

August 14 2008, 19:04:58 UTC 3 years ago

Along the same lines

The following short essay may be interesting, esp. for those seeking biological vindication:

http://www.firstthings.com/blog/2008/08/14/sexual-misattraction/

http://www.livescience.com/culture/080812-contraceptive-smell.html

[info]asterling

August 14 2008, 21:37:26 UTC 3 years ago

It never occurred to me before now, but I know a story about Robert Heinlein that does apply to what you say.

One of our most famous and successful female authors was introduced to Mr. Heinlein, who was at a party with his wife (I think her name was/is Ginny). Ginny is not a part of this at all. The author was at the party with her husband. Mr. Heinlein wasn't much interested in speaking with this author. Instead, he turned to her husband and asked him why, with a figure like hers, she was interested in writing, or working outside the home. He then complimented the author on her breasts. Her ideas and/or work - at that introduction - were not wanted.

I can't say about Ayn Rand, who seems to have been a very strange person in general.

But that just about says it all, doesn't it?

[info]johncwright

August 15 2008, 15:26:23 UTC 3 years ago

"But that just about says it all, doesn't it? "

I regret to say, dear lady, that it does.

Let me ask you a question. Of late, I have entertained the sneaking suspicion that all these advocates for free love and love without marriage and love without commitment are misogynists: they regard women as objects meant for their use, and hold contempt for them. For some reason the mainstream feminist movement, what some people call Third Wave feminism, goes along with them and cooperates, trying to break up marriage institutions that, from my point of view, protect and even glorify women and womanhood.

Is this just me being paranoid? I think Hugh Hefner and Bill Clinton and Ayn Rand and everyone else who does not condemn adultery as wrong is secretly condemning womanhood, motherhood, virginity and marriage. They say that are on the side of women, and seeking to free women from the chains of a outmoded set of customs. But then they treat women with such contempt.

Is is just an illusion of mine, or do you see it too?

[info]asterling

3 years ago

[info]m_francis

3 years ago

[info]rlbell

3 years ago

[info]asterling

August 15 2008, 16:49:18 UTC 3 years ago

Now that I'm moving, have accepted a new position at work (to help, despite the fact that I tried to quit again in January to finish my book and have been "staying" until my replacement could be found), and 3 classes start a week from Monday -

I think that science fiction, if we are talking about such, deserves a far higher standard of thought, character and reflection than it shared with the people who are remembered from "The Golden Age." Although we can point to authors of great respect for others and their role as storytellers like Fred Pohl, Clifford Simak, Ray Bradbury, Ursula Le Guin, and Arthur C. Clarke, the people who are constantly discussed and remembered are usually Heinlein and Asimov and others of a similar nature. While I believe Isaac Asimov was personally a very kind and nice man, he was faithless - and he had his limitations, even as brilliant as he was, in thinking. Heinlein you already addressed. I reread some of Heinlein's big books about 5-6 years ago preparatory to writing a "big sci fi book." While he has a lot of power as a writer, there are ultimately huge flaws in thinking and perception that make the stories unsatisfying from many perspectives, including the simple "story" one. It's embarrassing to find such a foolish cartoon of Christ's journey + random sexual fantasies liberally applied (Stranger in a Strange Land) praised and thought of as anything other than a masturbatory fantasy.

If this is a literature of ideas, I'd love to see the more innocent, loving aspects of "literature" (stories about life - or "the human heart in conflict with itself) applied rather than the march to dominance that formerly characterized so much of the field.

Or to be really crude - most people do masturbate. They also don't feel the need to write entire books to commemorate the experience and "share" with others.
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